Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile House Rules


"Taking the Plunge"

Posted by C Shell 
Recent Messages
"Taking the Plunge"
October 13, 2010 11:59AM
This is copied from Steve McVey's website, gracewalkministries. It's probably a "duh" to y'all, but it's given me a lot to think about.......

Steve McVey
Imagine that you are standing on a diving board on a hot day. It's a high dive. You look down and see fog beneath you. A reliable person who you know is trustworthy tells you that a refreshing pool of water is below. He assures you that you will enjoy the water tremendously if you jump into it.

You jump and you hit the water. It was just as you had been told. Wonderful.

Think about that scenario a moment. Was it your decision to jump that caused the water to be real? Did it come into being when you jumped? The fact is that the water was there whether you jumped or not. You didn't make it materialize by believing it was there and by throwing yourself off the diving board. Your action only allowed you to experience it. The water was real all along, but it became real to you when you jumped into it.

Here's the comparison: What Jesus Christ did for humanity is real. It isn't a person's faith that makes it become real. It was real before you and I believed and would have been real if we had never believed. Believing enables us to experience the reality of His finished work. It doesn't make His work real.

Existential thought in the Christian world suggests that our sins are forgiven when we believe; that we are reconciled to God when we believe; that all the things associated with our salvation happen because we believe. The problem is that this view puts the cart before the horse. We believe because it is already true. It doesn't become true when we believe! Our faith simply allows us to experience a reality that already exists.

With all our talk about the centrality of the cross, the way we often teach the gospel suggests that what is really central in our understanding is our profession of faith. The truth is that it all happened at the cross. When Jesus said, "It is finished," He meant it. He didn't mean He was waiting for us to finish it by anything we do.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Until we jump we won't ever get wet. But the water is there. We don't create by our faith. We just get to enjoy it when we take the plunge.

We believe it because it is already true. It doesn't become true when we believe. This truth undoes a lot of things I was taught, or maybe what I assumed they were saying.
Re: "Taking the Plunge"
October 14, 2010 08:19AM
That's amazing. Read it twice, got to read it again.....
Re: "Taking the Plunge"
October 15, 2010 12:18AM
WOW, need to let it sit for awhile and reread it later.

News flash:
God is not angry with you. He loves you.
If you don't believe that,
or think it's too good to be true,
or that I'm making it up - ask Him! smiling smiley
Re: "Taking the Plunge"
October 15, 2010 12:48PM

Loved that message!

What a great opportunity to be in a relationship when I can understand that all the energy involved in it shifts from trying to earn or perform, to being grateful. Kinda takes the pressure off. :-)

My 9 year old was giving me all kinds of reasons why she *had* to have an Email yesterday. She's quite the sales-person as it turns out...elaborating with gusto on the benefits and the entertainment aspects and of course gathering data for homework assignments an Email account would provide. :-) As I listened to her presentation, I had to smile as she tried so hard to convince me.

I can see Father smiling at me when I attempt to convince Him of my intentions and my worth and my committment. :-) He loves me so much, I imagine He doesn't have to marginalize my efforts and just smiles at how hard I try to convince Him, knowing it is my silly way of saying "Thankyou".

Thanks for finding the quote Shell.

Still learning.....

Re: "Taking the Plunge"
October 15, 2010 01:59PM
Yes Steve, your daughter doesn't need to work hard to convince you she's worthy of your acceptance and love, but she may have to work hard to convince you that she's ready to have an email account. Don't you think Father loves our earnestness when we try to convince him we're "ready" for something? (whether we are or not)

I guess it goes so deep I'm not really aware of it, the belief that faith is "my part of the bargain" with God, and that if I don't fulfill my part, the bargain isn't valid. I don't remember ever being taught in church that forgiveness, reconciliation, salvation and all the rest of the inheritance are all real and all mine whether or not I believe.

This means then, doesn't it, that all the people we call "unbelievers" own all the same wonderful gifts I've been given. The only difference between me and an "unbeliever" is that I get to enjoy the swim in this refreshing pool right now.
Re: "Taking the Plunge"
October 15, 2010 04:30PM
In my heart, I'm here. I love this. I'm with it. It sounds just like the Papa, Jesus, and Holy Spirit I'm getting to know. I know that if any part of salvation is up to me, I'm lost, I'm gonna fail, because,.. well, I suck at perfection. So, I'm good with this story, this analogy.

BUT,... here it comes. ... Does Hell exist? If not, then why all the references to it? If it does, then what is it for / who is it for?
A while back, I bookmarked this site (http://tentmaker.org/articles/hell_test.html) because I was interested, but it was just too much for me to take in.

So, what do y'all think? How do you reconcile this analogy and the "Hell-Test" site (which fits with our hearts) and the idea (head) of Hell?
Re: "Taking the Plunge"
October 15, 2010 10:06PM
Whew..... you know, I am finding that this is a sort of awakening...... and until we awake, we can talk until we are blue in the face and intellectualize it.... but some day, we just wake up to it..... and then we "be" who He created us to be. Wow.

I don't know about hell Theresa, except that I feel as if in a way I have "been there". I don't pay a lot of mind anymore to the devil or to hell...... I figure if Papa wants me to know something about it, He will get my attention. But I have spent way too much time dancing around THAT doctrine.
Re: "Taking the Plunge"
October 15, 2010 11:02PM
Hey sweet T,

Here's my 2 cents. for now, I'm heavily influenced by CS Lewis I guess (The Great Divorce, The Last Battle). Because I believe that Papa wouldn't put us somewhere forever where we would hate it. He loves us too much. So if I've lived my life making each choice one by one, each of those choices drawing me away from him and more into myself, he won't force himself on me at the end of my life by slapping me into heaven. He will keep giving me choices even after I'm dead and in some place he's designed...maybe like the Grey Town in The Great Divorce...that we right now might call "hell"...

it's just, I'm married to God Is Love and everything must be seen through those lenses
Re: "Taking the Plunge"
October 22, 2010 01:38PM
Some thoughts...I don't know the answers, that's for sure...

Just by jumping off the diving board and falling toward the unseen water is an act of faith.

The water was there all along. But if I had not exercised faith in its truth, it might as well not have been there at all. I would never experience it or see its reality. I would remain in my dry, hot condition forever.

It still remains a matter of choice. If I don't choose it, I don't get it.

That doesn't mean my choice creates it or un-creates it. My choice doesn't complete the reality of it.

My choice does, however, either include me or exclude me.

Jesus does ask us to believe, and we will be saved.

He has saved me, He is saving me, and He will save me.

W.I.P. (Work in Progress)
Learning to Live LOVED
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 17
Record Number of Guests: 987 on June 05, 2015
Hosted by DownTownHost