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Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .

Posted by Michael Collum 
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Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 19, 2009 04:04PM
Hmm i've noticed while scanning a word for word (arabic-english interlinear) translation of the Qu'ran . That God when speaking in the first person about things only God could be talking about says "We" . what's up with that? winking smiley

Hope you all are well .






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2009 04:05PM by Michael Collum.
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 21, 2009 09:08PM
So i read some more . and looked closely at the symbols whenever "we" is used either when in the "God is speaking" sense or in the speaking of a group of people sense . and we appears to be plural . but also realized that the "We entity" appears to speak of Allah in the third person . so maybe the messenger to the prophet is a group of angels claiming to have done a lot of the Old Testament stuff that is usually attributed to Papa . hmm also what is strange is if this hypothesis is true then this group claims the ability to forgive sins . but if its not . maybe the Qu'ran is working on a gnostical framework where the trinity wasn't created by Sophia but by Allah . perhaps the We entity that speaks as God is the trinity . and this just slipped past the scholars? but who knows right? winking smiley i'll read some more .

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 21, 2009 10:20PM
You know, this is the only faith literature that i have read yet . that comes off as an antagonistic dialogue against other faiths . furthermore, if i could get a nickle for every time that book calls me a "loser" for "disbelieving it .. Laughing i mean more creative insults have been said . in the Old Testament .. and even in the false prophet/antichrist dialogues in the NT you'd think they'd have used some of that . in this sense it comes across as very human and not from God at all . but i'll keep reading . it seems there's some interesting stuff still to come .

page 70 of 2082

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 01:38AM
Now on Page 78 of 2082

Hmm "who is better than Allah in (ordaning) religion?" oh so all those people who need someone to blame for toxic religious abusive crap over the millennia is this Allah? hmm okay . duly noted . i'll keep worshipping Jesus Christ the son of the Living God .

This section seems to be replacing the traditional Judaism/Christianity view that Abraham and Isaac were the ones who did the promise activity . but it seems no wait .. Ishmael was the one who went with Abraham to build a religion and even Isaac believed in this new God called Allah and even called himself a muslim before either word was even uttered . and Isa (Jesus) and Musa (Moses) were just prophets just like all the other prophets and we make no such distinctions . .,. hmm i choose to "disbelieve" this new information . not only because it is not true . but because the voice it is being written in is very antagonistic . not a god of "Islam" (Meaning peace) at all . This is indeed the spirit of Ishmael who's "hand will be against his brothers and his brothers against him" as was prophesied . hmm i think i used to stop before this after being tired of being called a loser tee hee .

its an interesting psychological tactic . but i'll keep reading . this book really likes to play with my head . hahaha

okay . moving on .. fun stuff eh? hehehehe

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 01:43AM
Now on Page 81 of 2082

Hmm, now is the part where the Allah is being spoken of in the third person and then "We" speaks

We says: "you can only follow the messenger if you are one Allah has guided."

now other than the obvious plagiarism from Jesus and the Father dialogue from the John Gospel . if "We" is God then why is "We" speaking of Allah in the third person?

furthermore, this page reveals that it is "Allah" who causes people to lose their faith . i'm starting to wonder who this Allah is .. sounding like some other biblical character .. but i'll just keep reading winking smiley

interesting anyway.

moving on .. smiling smiley

Hope you all are well .






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2009 01:45AM by Michael Collum.
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 01:51AM
Now on Page 89 of 2082

(i've downloaded all the pages . so i'm not dependent on the online version . just so you can read along if you so like)

Hmm .. so there goes a round of the mantra Allah is competent and Allah is Merciful and then the putting down of people some more and on this page the introduction of "symbols" of Allah and some ritual locations and rituals . I wonder which alien Allah is .. God doesn't need symbols or rituals . people create those . and at best they serve as momentos for the original person who was there with God . beyond that . there is no relationship . just religion .

okay . moving on . grinning smiley

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 01:56AM
Now on Page 90

So now is another psychology trick . saying .. you're cursed so you cannot possibly understand until you repent . and start believing what you cannot possibly understand until you believe it . i've seen the same thing in institutional christianity . where they probably copied the pattern ..

but people tend to come to the God i know through disagreement and openness of disagreement . but the text here seems to indicate people come to Allah by putting up and shutting up and just accepting what the Qu'ran says . which isn't the kind of trust Jesus came to form with us to make a relationship that would last forever .

I keep hearing about a merciful God in this text .. still listening for the merciful God through the writer of this book . (i'll keep reading) (by now i've passed the texts suicide bombers most likely butcher to support their application of the Qu'ran . just as an FYI, paradise and virgins (no number quoted) are promised earlier for "the righteous" and it is said "dead muslims" are not really dead implying something about the afterlife .. nothing coherent described like in the NT scriptures as yet though . )

perhaps a break now to absorb what has been read .

Hope you all are well .






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2009 02:03AM by Michael Collum.
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 03:02AM
Ah . now i get it . you see . this is a very well calculated book . many psychological trip wires are placed throughout it .

now . if one can look past the insults and the antagonistic tone . and thus with a clear mind . the text will make perfect sense . but .. for the average joe .. the "mystery" would be lost on them because they lack humility and focus on the bad parts and are unable to see the balanced picture . whatever that might be .

or as i so far understand from what my mind has processed of this experience .

i've noticed also a lot of complex applied psychology in here .

should be a good workout for the mind . will read more later .

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 09:56AM
Interesting stuff, Michael. What do you mean by "psychological trip wires"?

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 10:18AM
Oh .. well . there's these sentences that are placed "just so" that contradict the usual version of the story in say the Jewish texts or the New Testament . and then it is coupled with a statement like "do you think you're wiser than us?" and then usually an insult of some sort towards those who think differently . so its designed to get people emotionally reactive to the text without rationally thinking about it well until they are no longer "disbelievers" .

generally many people i've met who were evangelistic about Islam seemed to have the same pattern of speech too .

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 10:41AM
Come to think of it .. one might think .. that stating an alternate version of a story that has been long considered fact . (long before the Qu'ran was written) and ignoring key parts of the earlier conveyed story . and telling it as if it is the way it has always been has a certain air of arrogance also . but its all part of the experience . if you read the Qu'ran and don't feel a little insulted then it is most likely that you weren't really paying attention winking smiley tongue sticking out smiley

Hope you all are well .






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2009 10:44AM by Michael Collum.
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 10:52AM
Back to Page 90 of 2082

Hmm it is written on this page that people who don't "correct themselves" and start believing that the curse of Allah and the angels and the people are on them . now there's a new concept . usually monotheistic literature is all about God . but here the text seems to be indicating caring whether other people curse you is important . later i will pay attention to see if the same is true for blessing .

observation duly made .

moving on .

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 11:04AM
Now on Page 91

The curse spoken of is an eternal curse . so the Qu'ran seems to introduce a new idea of other people cursing those who didn't believe and the angels too . i think they're drawing from a text in Isaiah regarding that one but for the angels this is new information .

the next part says only Allah is worthy of worship and continues in old testament dialogue of what God has done from creation and then to specifics a nice passage . which shows on Page 93 the reason for this was a wind up to continue the point there is no Ilah (worth of worship) but him and continues with saying people worship other Gods falsely as if they were him but he is the real one . And seems to continue to appeal to a "fear of punishment" to obey him .

but i recall that

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18

So it would indicate that those writing this are not superseding what passed on before as they so claim earlier . because they are relying on fear of punishment to keep people in line but ..

Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? Romans 2:4

So the God they encountered may have been God . and God is indeed merciful . i am just not seeing it in the life of the writer(s) of this book yet . i will keep reading . but stopping for now . life beckons .

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 22, 2009 06:37PM
My so far review of the Qu'ran .

i see it as a book that uses Proverbs and Ecclesiastes with a backdrop of the Torah .

There is some good stuff in there . i noticed a lot of good stuff in the book i guess before i started this blog in the first 70 pages . and i am sure there is more surprises to come .

my goal in this is not so much to launch an attack on the Qu'ran or Islam . but really just to be real about my perceptions of it . i read something in the Qu'ran and it said there are some people who say .. yes i believe . but later after people leave they get real and say no .. i was just joking i just said that so they would go away .

i'm not like that . it would be my intention that one would read this as an exercise in honest expression of what i honestly perceive the book to say from my perspective . nothing less . nothing more .

considering an entire civilization blossomed around this text before Genghis Khan kinda wrecked it . i would say there must be some substance to that also . just as much as there is substance to those who use this text as an occaision for violence and taking another's life or even plans of mass genocide . i figure if something that bad can come out of it . it must be reflecting something good in an opposite sense .

it is not so much the text or the interpretation but the heart that reads and interprets .

so with that . i will continue reading later . and posting my impression whether positive or negative based on who i understand God to be from my relationship with Him in Jesus Christ .

blessings,

-Michael Collum

Hope you all are well .






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2009 06:40PM by Michael Collum.
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 23, 2009 12:45AM
I'll continue the Qu'ran study tomorrow .

resting in Papa tonight .

blessings,

-Michael Collum

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 23, 2009 12:56AM
Papa's blessings on you Michael!

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 23, 2009 10:33PM
Papa said in the shack "ritual is nothing" . so i'll go back to the Qu'ran as the Spirit so leads . i'll look into the Catechism today .

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 24, 2009 01:36AM
C Shell's Response relating to phariseeism relating to both the bible and the qu'ran and my response has been made into a separate topic . join in the conversation

Hope you all are well .






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2009 01:39AM by Michael Collum.
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 27, 2009 05:00PM
I've been thinking .. maybe the church is worshipping the muslim God . i'm not . but really . as i read through the schizoprenic discourse of how horrible everyone is and then how great and merciful Allah is and what Allah is talking about . it seems like a theology time capsule from the time Islam began .

if one were to look at this text then remove "the We entity's" conjecture . perhaps something interesting would emerge .

something useful even winking smiley

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 27, 2009 05:52PM
I read something somewhere that the number of chapters posed mathematically in a certain way add up to 19 a lot . some muslims call this "the mathematical miracle of the Qu'ran" .. i looked up in the bible what 19 means and the surrounding themes in the verses having the compound word for nineteen was "babylon" and "reproduction" . i will thus heed the warning of the number of the spirit of the text . and continue to listen to the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ in my readings .

Hope you all are well .



Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 27, 2009 08:54PM
Page 92 says God is in control of Creation but states it in a way that devalues it . I guess the devaluing isn't extreme and is somewhat Old testament so i'll give it a pass for Old Testament literature .

Page 93 continues speaking all creation loves God but those who follow the muslim god are more in love with God . continues saying all power belongs to God and He is severe in punishment. You'd think they'd say He is merciful even when punishing . The text continues to say that people disassociate themselves from their family when they see how severe the punishment of the muslim god is . on the other hand, the God i worship draws people to Him by His kindness . They are not the same God even if the Qu'ran seems to think so . i am not fooled . winking smiley

Page 94 continues the above dialogue with a discourse of predictive regret . predicting the regret of those who do not turn their backs on their families for the muslim God as their family members did . continues to say they will be put into the fire and never come out . the prescription for this condition is to follow muslim dietary laws and to not follow satan . so two do nots and no .. what to do insteads . definitely Old Testament type literature .


Page 95 continues with saying satan makes you do bad things and say things about the muslim god that you do not know . and a call to not follow tradition because traditions can be false . This page has some merit depending on how you read it . if it was applied to the various schools of Islam that are into violence maybe it could change something . but much more to read .

Page 96 is a parable about how deaf and blind others are to the message of the quran.

Page 97 is the beginning of a dietary law discourse . The bible is quite clear we are not to let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink . Page 98 continues the absurd notion from page 94 that you will be thrown into the fire for not following muslim dietary laws . So one can be damned forever for eating a twinkie? tongue sticking out smiley

Page 98 Seems to also speak of the root idea of exchanging guidance for error and forgiveness for punishment . Which seems to indicate as page 94 may have also implied here . it is about more than food .

Page 99 and Page 100 seem to bring things back to a more reasonable perspective that sounds similar to what James talked about in his letter especially chapter 2 . It is written that it is not about turning to the east or west but doing good to fellow humans . the only thing i'd differ on in these passages is "giving your wealth to the poor inspite of your love of it" doing anything inspite of anything isn't trusting God . its playing a game . but generally one of those oasis passages that gets to the meat of things minus the human commentary .

Hope you all are well .






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2009 08:58PM by Michael Collum.
Re: Reading Qu'ran .. Hmm this is intriguing .
September 27, 2009 08:59PM
Quote
Michael Collum
I've been thinking .. maybe the church is worshipping the muslim God . i'm not . but really . as i read through the schizoprenic discourse of how horrible everyone is and then how great and merciful Allah is and what Allah is talking about . it seems like a theology time capsule from the time Islam began .

if one were to look at this text then remove "the We entity's" conjecture . perhaps something interesting would emerge .

something useful even winking smiley
Yeah, have to agree. It would explain the religious obligation to smite everything and everybody that didn't agree with us (Inquisition, Crusades, St. Bartholomew's Day massacre, etc etc). Their god rejoices in causing pain, humiliation, suffering, death...that is not the Papa I know.

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
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