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How much of it is up to me?

Posted by Mountainash 
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How much of it is up to me?
November 28, 2009 05:16PM
When it comes to ceasing from sin, what is my responsibility? Do I try my best, knowing God's love for me does not change when I fall short? Do I stop trying to do anything and just sit by while I wait for the temptation or desire to sin goes away? Jesus was tempted, right? So is it even reasonable to expect temptations to go away?
Re: How much of it is up to me?
November 28, 2009 05:54PM
Hi Ashley,

My responsibility as a plant is to open up and take in sunlight and grow and when the time comes the fruit grows on its own .

For me trusting God who tends to the vine, helps infections go away . I try to observe stuff on a week to week, month to month, and year to year, and then decade to decade basis . a day to day scale is far too volatile and plays with my emotions .

since most temptations are rooted in the ego . if i pay the temptation no attention . it eventually goes away .

how have you been?

-Michael

Hope you all are well .






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2009 05:54PM by Michael Collum.
Re: How much of it is up to me?
November 28, 2009 09:30PM
Quote
Mountainash
When it comes to ceasing from sin, what is my responsibility? Do I try my best, knowing God's love for me does not change when I fall short? Do I stop trying to do anything and just sit by while I wait for the temptation or desire to sin goes away? Jesus was tempted, right? So is it even reasonable to expect temptations to go away?

I like the question, Mountainash. But the heart of the question is wanting to do the best for him, and it's the heart he looks at, especially because our best efforts are filthy rags. As Father sees time differently from us (the past is as the present is as the future), he sees that we are holy and pure, covered totally in the blood of Jesus ( because when we see him we shall be as he is, but "when" is a time relative term from our understanding ); regardless of how we feel. So then his GRACE (yeah that over-used word again) comes into play, where His spirit works within us to bear witness to what is sin, yet not convicting us when we do fall.

So what is our responsibility? Simply being open to his spirit, humble in our attitude of knowing that there is nothing we can do to make ourselves holier.

Where does temptation come from? The devil. Scripture tells us to resist the devil and that he will flee - that is just what Jesus did in the desert. So resistance is called for, but how does this happen, when we are so easily swayed by persuasive arguments and logic? Note the fact that the devil used scripture to try and convince Jesus of the "rightness" of following the temptation. Each time Jesus did not deny the scripture, but denied the heart in which the scripture was being interpreted, and instead pointed back to the heart of the Father in each question (emphasising reliance upon and subservience to the Father). So then in order to resist the devil we need to know the heart Luv of the Father! Note also that the devil doesn't flee for long; he's back trying a new tactic pretty soon.



Wow, I'm having difficulty trying to explain concepts to myself today! Fuzzy thinking...I hope you get what I'm driving at!

Anyhow, good to see you here. How are you and hubby doing? Plenty of web work on?

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
Re: How much of it is up to me?
November 29, 2009 03:23PM
Good questions, Ashley! And good answers, men. I believe it IS my responsibility to resist the devil and all he throws at me, temptations included. At the same time I'm not resisting him in my own strength, but God's...so I guess resisting temptation is a shared responsibility, me and Papa doing it together.

I believe self-examination is good and is something God wants us to do. In my experience, it's the people who never examine their motives and actions who tend more toward evil than the ones who do it too much. But it's not good to do too much either! Again, it's a shared responsibility. When I examine myself for sin, wrong motives, hurtful behaviors with Papa, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I don't feel condemned. I feel a sense of God saying, "You want some help with that?"

At its best I think it's a call and response thing. He calls me to examine something and I respond with awareness, being sorry and asking for his help.

It's not about what we are against, but Who we are for... and Who is for us.
Anonymous User
Re: How much of it is up to me?
November 29, 2009 10:54PM
It is another area in which we are free to choose. God created us that way.
I do not believe one can lose one's salvation. However it is possible to choose to throw it away.
See saw
Re: How much of it is up to me?
November 30, 2009 02:42AM
Sheesh! No pressure here, huh?

This (below) is where I'm at these days -- any other answer to "How much is up to me?" and I freak out with anxiety, because "I CAN'T GET IT RIGHT". (You know, "If you break one word of the law, you've broken it all " -- so, what are we gaining with all our effort?)

Quote
Theresa7, from Kitchen / Origin of Sin
What if SIN IS SEPARATION from God -- as in LACK of RELATIONSHIP?

Quote
onyx, from Kitchen / Relationships
I believe that the RESPONSIBILITY for the relationship between you and Papa is actually his RESPONSIBILITY.

When I keep these truths in mind (that I can't do it and God established the relationship -- because He knows I can't), then temptation isn't about getting it right. It becomes an opportunity to trust his love no matter what I choose.

Whoa!! Really? Yep. Really, really.
Anonymous User
Re: How much of it is up to me?
November 30, 2009 01:32PM
Yeah...that
These days I am going through that process of getting all this moved from the head to the heart.
Thank you for expressing it so well.
Re: How much of it is up to me?
November 30, 2009 03:23PM
Hey! Thanks Everyone!

Quote
Michael Collum
My responsibility as a plant is to open up and take in sunlight and grow and when the time comes the fruit grows on its own .

That's a good analogy. I Luv word pictures!

Quote
Michael Collum
For me trusting God who tends to the vine, helps infections go away . I try to observe stuff on a week to week, month to month, and year to year, and then decade to decade basis . a day to day scale is far too volatile and plays with my emotions .

since most temptations are rooted in the ego . if i pay the temptation no attention . it eventually goes away.

Yeah, day to day plays with my emotions, too--makes me feel like such a liar.



Quote
onyx
I like the question, Mountainash. But the heart of the question is wanting to do the best for him, and it's the heart he looks at, especially because our best efforts are filthy rags. As Father sees time differently from us (the past is as the present is as the future), he sees that we are holy and pure, covered totally in the blood of Jesus ( because when we see him we shall be as he is, but "when" is a time relative term from our understanding ); regardless of how we feel. So then his GRACE (yeah that over-used word again) comes into play, where His spirit works within us to bear witness to what is sin, yet not convicting us when we do fall.

There is a lot to think about here. I tend to think of convicting as convincing so I might substitute condemning in, but I definitely hear what you're saying.

I just don't know why I keep doing the same things over and over when I think I agree with God--those things aren't good for me. Self-control has never been a strength of mine.


Quote
onyx
Where does temptation come from? The devil. Scripture tells us to resist the devil and that he will flee - that is just what Jesus did in the desert. So resistance is called for, but how does this happen, when we are so easily swayed by persuasive arguments and logic? Note the fact that the devil used scripture to try and convince Jesus of the "rightness" of following the temptation. Each time Jesus did not deny the scripture, but denied the heart in which the scripture was being interpreted, and instead pointed back to the heart of the Father in each question (emphasising reliance upon and subservience to the Father). So then in order to resist the devil we need to know the heart Luv of the Father! Note also that the devil doesn't flee for long; he's back trying a new tactic pretty soon.

I'm not sure what I don't get here, but I know I don't get it.Hmmmm I want to resist temptations most of the time, but other times I could care less. I'm fully convinced that giving into my temptation is truly un-beneficial but that doesn't stop me. I know that God wants only good for me and withholds nothing good from me, but I keep choosing those not-good things for myself. I need a facepalm emoticon.

Quote
C Shell
Again, it's a shared responsibility. When I examine myself for sin, wrong motives, hurtful behaviors with Papa, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I don't feel condemned. I feel a sense of God saying, "You want some help with that?"

*sigh* Yes! Help please. Why doesn't He just take it away? I don't want it anymore. At least I think I don't.

Quote
Michael Collum
how have you been?

-Michael

Quote
onyx
Anyhow, good to see you here. How are you and hubby doing? Plenty of web work on?

Thanks for asking. Good to see all of you, too! Big Hug! It kinda seems like there is a flux kind of thing going on with a bunch of my online friends. It's hard to find everyone!

I'm doing pretty well all things considered. Some extended family relationships are strained--others are closer than ever. Jason and I are convinced God wants us to move--only problem, we have no idea where. We have lots to do to prepare our house before we can put it on the market. Its overwhelming! On the one hand I'm excited about what's ahead, on the other hand I'm convinced we're nuts. Business is slow, but with all the other stuff going on, that's probably a good thing (albeit sometimes inconvenient).

How are all of you??
Re: How much of it is up to me?
November 30, 2009 08:35PM
Quote
MountainAsh

I'm not sure what I don't get here, but I know I don't get it.(Hmmmm) I want to resist temptations most of the time, but other times I could care less. I'm fully convinced that giving into my temptation is truly un-beneficial but that doesn't stop me. I know that God wants only good for me and withholds nothing good from me, but I keep choosing those not-good things for myself. I need a facepalm emoticon.

Hysterical Yes I know what you mean, and I truly apologize for my previous post...it comes across as if I have it all together, with perfect self-control. I DONT. I was trying to say that until we fully know AND live in the heart of the Father, we don't have it all together. And that doesn't happen this side of eternity, does it?

Doh! ( that the one u want?) Hysterical

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
Re: How much of it is up to me?
December 01, 2009 05:06PM
Oh! Absolutely no apology necessary. I didn't get the impression you thought you had it all together. I know we're all in the same boat.

I think I just need to concern myself less with what I do and more with who God is.

I've been getting flack from my neighbor lately. Crazy He keeps saying stuff about how I just use grace as an excuse not to change. I guess it got to me, cuz I started thinking, "I should try harder." and getting discouraged when my efforts to try harder were not giving me any headway. I remember reading something a long time back that said basically, if try separate yourself from anything without separation unto Christ, you'll find you only went from one bad thing to another. Doh!

Laughing Yeah, that facepalm smiley works nicely.
Re: How much of it is up to me?
December 01, 2009 05:59PM
Quote
Mountainash
...I started thinking, "I should try harder." and getting discouraged when my efforts to try harder were not giving me any headway.

Reminds me of when Jesus told the rich young ruler that he wasn't doing enough. You know, when Jesus said, "If you think you're Godly, then why don't you give up everything you own? Let's see how Godly you are then." Cause Jesus wanted to rub his face in the fact that he still had a weakness, right?
What. No?
(This is how I USED to read that passage.)

Now, I think this: Jesus knew the young man was pretty good. But pretty good is not good enough. The point is not HOW good we are. The point is that we need to give it up. He did it for us!! I think Jesus was trying to challenge the guy so much that he would give up and realize that he couldn't do it. Only when we stop trying, can we really accept Grace.

BTW - It annoys me when people say, "we don't do it by ourselves, we do it with Christ's help." I think they say this so they can still keep trying and put a "with Jesus's help" stamp on it. Yuck.

I have plenty of things that are yucky. I want to change, but it is only when I admit that I am powerless to change that I have hope. Because that means HE has to do it (as I agree and submit -- of course), but its not MY effort (which has never worked to effect any change -- only to temporarily manipulate my behavior).

I'd be willing to bet that those who spent time with Jesus were changed. But this was not the purpose. Our goal (okay, MY GOAL) is not to be changed, but to get to know him and let him get to know me -- THE REAL ME! (I don't want to hear "I never knew you".)
Re: How much of it is up to me?
December 01, 2009 07:38PM
ApplauseYeah...that

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
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