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Box Theology 101

Posted by radio roswell 
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Box Theology 101
March 31, 2011 03:10AM
OK..I just had this in my head while driving tonight

I know I know..it's professor Jeff..and that usually counts for several eye rolls and why can't this guy just leave it alone..yeah yeah..but it's just that..I feel I need to share something. and being that I don't post anymore like I used to ...much of it because of trying to define GPS of my journey......... So please..let me just entertain my own thoughts then and rattle them off. If for nothing else then to be a noisy gong trying to find fine tuning.I honestly don't know what I'm going through nor how to relate anymore. I don't have this figured out...

Ok..So I went out tonight and did my hip 40 something night out. Yeah baby..that usually means helping the wife putting the kids to bed at 8pm and sneaking out to Barnes and Noble for a Green Tea Latte and look for my latest book. Since I'll be traveling in my cool family trucktser to Florida for the week..it's always nice to have a good book. Oh did I mention it's the super christian relatives?? yeah..ok so I'm choosing wisely..Hey look It's Rob Bell's book. Wow Nice cover..No expense spared for this marketing

I used to know this sort of stuff..making cd's and being somewhat in graphics art..

But enough pat's on the back.....so anyway...I'm looking for coloring books for my daughter Savannah. She loves Dinosaurs and Dragons.....oh here's a nice one..but wait a minute..it has captions and uh oh..there's jargon about millions of years ago..Hmmmmmmmm and I'm already bringing the Rob Bell book. Oh well..guess I'll just have to deal?? deal with what??

Ah ha...Box theology. Not my own..but the reactions and questions that I'm just not in the mood to answer about being..well on the outside of . Honestly I could smile and just agree smooth over and not take notice..nod or my favorite..Smile and wave boys..just smile and wave.

Does this mean I love these folks any less?? Feel superior?? Ummm no...because I have the same problem.

The box theology is not reserved for just church or IC or whatever were trying to label it. Now I know I know..labels are evil..well.. maybe..but they do exist too. Politics of human persuasive collective thought and identity and common bonds are powerful.

To prove it..If I really said everything I feel about politics or America's involvement in wars..the Bible and Christianity..and or Church ( that about covers religion and politics) just for starters..what do you think the response would be?

Like tomorrow I go on FB and spout from my theories and personal observations on earth living for all my 170 family and friends to see. I would probably get several e-mails and over the course of a few days begin trimming down.

This is boxing. Like that friend who always spouts Bible verses or joins the page of your favorite TV preacher.Barf

My first forum was far more church going traditional..yet still flexible enough to discuss wines and movies..funny jokes..clever wit..in other words it wasn't hyper baptist. But..when talk of not going to church and reasons why began to surface. Look out..it went explosive..seems we found the edges of the box....and because the community was strong on that..the posters of frequent popularity and substance ( and not to mention the ministry it was under)..guess who got forced out..??Lurk

Well not exactly forced..Ummm..this is where it gets weird..there was no official "your out of this forum"..but a collective idea of ignorance and division began..in other words..those who were in favor of talking about such subjects..preached to the choir..the others..put them on ignore..the ironic part was the talk of grace being thrown around..nothing like an oxymoron party..

eventually there wasn't any point in discussion..oh I stop by still for my very few faithful friends there..to talk about music and movies..but that's it.

So a box went up. inevitable due to contrast. And the fact that somethings are just too sacred.

So I found other places of other forums. This time I figured out that well..maybe if we change the tools..let's go with Biblical interpretations..unfortunately..the words of IC-isms did slip out on occasion...but for the most part..now it was even worse. Don't mess with Biblical literalism...wow..again..boxes upon boxes..

So then I wandered into "Free believing forums"..fine at first..actually a party..and then one day..I began to realize..two things..I think some felt guilty of sorts and wanted to run back and embrace the whole thing and dismiss that there was any difference.....and some just didn't know what the hell to do..and eventually..gave up on believing all together as a part of church of any kind. I know of a few now who aren't even sure about anything God related.

Me?? well..Honestly..I don't know..I used to be very certain, confident of so many things..But now..I feel lost in the church. Oh don't get me wrong I got a few really good brothers and sisters that understand me pretty well..That's giving the devil a black eye right there if you can even have that..

But here's the thing..I can't deny or pretend there's no box...nor can I deny that I'm certain of anything anymore..

I believe..

to me this is all the faith I have now..and it kind of makes sense..in a weird way..why would I need faith if I was certain??

Hmmmmm I don't know..but here's just a very small window of an iceberg's tip

When I was going through my darkest hour..and told it was God testing me?? where do you think that came form??

And for the record..I was given enough grace not to pin it on the individual but the theology.And when a friend called depressed and full of anxiety because they didn't feel worthy enough to be a believer cause of something they acquired from that theology...
When our last church snubbed for us for seeing tithing differently after we served with them and tried to come to an understanding..and not one ever called to see what happened..

and when I have to explain why a lesbian couple was being far more generous than our old church friends..it's that theology that haunts my soul..when I have to explain why my daughter who has far more theology down than i just being a child and seeing God far more pure than I can already has to be explained to relative of why she's not in Sunday school or what were going to do to teach her..
when my own country is ripped from the middle to the edges by journalistic media colonialism Christian nation speak over three wars now that is bankrupting our childrens future...yet if I speak out about it I'm far less patriotic or called a conspiracy nut...............................I see the edges once again of the..??

well you know

Well..It seems..I'm on the outside of something now..and living the life of that...and the more bold I become..and hoping that Love really does win..it's going to get a whole lot more tougher to reconcile the definitions of what actually keeps us all together..

I know what it is...but as far as figuring out what to do about it..I'll have to get back to you on that one.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 03:31AM by radio roswell.
Re: Box Theology 101
March 31, 2011 06:36AM
Hi and (((RR)))

Well said. - You know your not alone on the journey when you start bumping in to others about the "place" who are really ...'wanting more of this relationship thing' God, Jesus and the HS. I suppose in a way as the world is erupting in social, political and financial mess, its almost looks like the "end times are here"?

I just finished listening to short message by Major Ian Thomas called "Any old bush will do" Think it was discussed about somewhere familiar? Great 22min sermon. Basically he put it this way...

"God was telling Moses, 'I don't need a pretty bush or an educated bush or an eloquent bush. Any old bush will do as long as I'm in the bush. If I'm going to use you, it won't be you doing something for Me, but Me doing something through you. I was that kind of bush: a useless bunch of dried-up sticks. I could do nothing for God. All my reading and studying and modeling myself after others was worthless unless God was in the bush. Only He could make something happen."

So ... Forget about the "box" and just be the bush! I think I can do that?

The only 'walls/sides' you might find may be Father saying "hold on not that way"?

Bless Ya RR

(Lion theology needs to be basic - hunger, comfort and maine combed occasionally...)
Re: Box Theology 101
March 31, 2011 11:28AM
Hey Jeff -- I love what you wrote, and I love that you wrote it. I love how you keep stirring the pot, making us (me) think.

I don't want there to be a box, or multitude of boxes, but I'm afraid it's a fact of life, just like the fact that there are mosquitoes and tsunamis and tyrants.

i'm thinking about Peter, there with Jesus on the mountain where Jesus got all radiant and spoke with Moses & elijah. And what did peter want to do in the face of this unspeakable amazingness? build a box. and this dude knew Jesus! real well!

and if there's a box, it's possible to be inside it, and it's possible to be outside it. I'm more of the mindset to accept that I'm outside the box you describe so well, rather than to pretend there's no box. and there will always be fewer people outside a system than inside, so how do those fewer live? that's what i'm trying to find out.

i love how rob bell says he's just joining the ancient discussion about God that's been going on for millienia -- not having to have the answers, just part of the talk. that's a good place to be.

Re: Box Theology 101
March 31, 2011 12:34PM
Thanks (((((Lionhearted))))..and (((((((Shelly))))))))..

What up?? how you've been?? Things are busy around here as you might have guessed..Olivia had her first Birthday....now I'm just trying to keep the sanity...Opps too late..

i'm thinking about Peter, there with Jesus on the mountain where Jesus got all radiant and spoke with Moses & elijah. And what did peter want to do in the face of this unspeakable amazingness? build a box. and this dude knew Jesus! real well!

Love this Shelly..fine example..

Like when the shack came out..if it wasn't for box theology..that book would have went right under the radar..but it stirred necessary contrast..everything we do....through him not for him..( like Lionhearted stated..Sling which was dead on by the way)..I mean I don't know about anyone else..but I run into this all the time..just being myself..not even trying..

My dad is a very wise man..He's struggling big time with the whole God picture..This poor guy has been thorough it..Raised as a minister's son....constantly measured in the evangelical community..eventually he just walked away competently and kept any ideas about God to himself.

This past New Years we were all having our family dinner..eventually the wine kicks in..and we kick back and put the scuba gear on and go deep into conversation....

we got to a place where we reasoned why as a young man my dad walked away from the evangelical scene..he said he didn't think they had the answer...

I told him "they didn't convince you??" but why?? this is where it got more intriguing and everyone began to chime in with theorize and even a lil heated.

My favorite response which so neatly tied in with my past year experience was.." I'm not certain but I don't believe they did" there was an observation made..rational deduction upon evidence of what?? could be..real love.??

yeah..I think it's safe to say now..that everything I held dear while in Camp Christianity..was first and foremost..conveniently presented so that..it appeared the parameters of doing God's will could be functioned in such away as to be seen collectively as the only evidence that was....well convenient.

real love is not convenient..so if it's perfect and drive or casts out fear...then how is that not convenient..??

truth is..there's something in fear that is trying to control an aspect of this very thing..and gives itself to..

finding boxes?? maybe.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 12:37PM by radio roswell.
Re: Box Theology 101
March 31, 2011 10:09PM
What's so """""dangerous""""" about love? in these tv interviews of rob bell i keep seeing, the preachers who give a dissenting opinion always say this book is Dangerous.

Dangerous to what?
Re: Box Theology 101
March 31, 2011 11:41PM
I think you already know why Shelly.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 03:11AM by radio roswell.
Re: Box Theology 101
April 01, 2011 11:13AM
i think you're saying real love is not convenient, right? at least, i believe it's not, because it takes much work, time and attention to love, and it's not easy. It's not a slap on the back, hope it's going well mate, walk on. it means involvement in someone's life and that's dangerous. If you want your belief system handed to you on a silver platter, love won't be on that platter because it's too wild, it'll jump off.
Re: Box Theology 101
April 01, 2011 12:30PM
Right...nor is it safe..or comfortable..it risks embarrassment....it does not fear showing weakness..

We all have to be careful because of the natural tendency to subscribe easily to the collective construct of a thing....I'm not that brave nor am I secure to enough to make it alone..I do need the fellowship.....even though I love the necessity of independence..I think they are both equally as important and must coexist in a an individuals life.

It's a constant struggle to find the balance.

I have been told " your just like your father"
" he's a rebellious lil shit" ( reference and jokingly said in my direction ..LOL)
" you wait an see..your free believing lil group one day will become a organized"
" don't you have anything better to do but bitch about the church"
" I'm really worried for you , your drifting too far now "
" if you don't take every verse in the Bible literally how do you know which not to, your on dangerous ground my friend"

And on and on and on..

Necessary contrast.

I love this picture taken by my cousin at a music festival..it depicts perfectly the topic at hand.The other sign by the counter protester said< " were Christians too but were not with them" and " were so sorry"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 12:40PM by radio roswell.

Re: Box Theology 101
April 01, 2011 08:03PM
Nice one Jeff

Been hanging out with a bunch of folk here trying to find out where in "Life are we" and a having a ball!
Last night a friend who was saved from the gangs, loves to talk/witness to folk... "You need Jesus!... Have you made a decision yet? .... Time is short!" He's right - we do, we do and it is! The style may not be used by everyone, but I think the 'bush is burning alright'.

Thanks man, but i'm still learning too. Old dudes like me still learn stuff winking smiley

Like the day when the car broke down ...again and would'nt start. Car was full, groceries and all. It was hot and we were tired. The mind said "&^%$#$#$@!" the heart said "wait awhile" what i did was something else altogether, as usual... smiling smiley but there was a 'tugging, nudging going on inside me.... "wait a while".

Call it what you like, I waited 10mins, the car started and we got home. However when the fault showed up again, more drastic steps were taken. Auto-electrician, Mechanic and then Technician from Mitshi! Until a small part the size of a mp3 player was "tagged and bagged"! The cost.... way too much... the annoyance value, right up there, the result.....priceless.


(Arn't Teens Priceless!)
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