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Love wins anybody

Posted by J(uk) 
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Love wins anybody
March 16, 2011 11:10PM
Anyone else started reading or listening to rob bells new book? He's certainly getting some flack about it. I've just started it, I generally like his stuff but worry slightly about the whole marketing of his stuff in that he clearly has something to say and provides good insight but does it need a world tour and tv appearances.

What I've listened to so far he talked about the fact that he doesn't believe in the Jesus that others struggle to believe in one that condems, judges etc.

Be interested to hear others thoughts
Re: Love wins anybody
March 18, 2011 12:57AM
I wasn't aware that it was out... I'm looking forward to it personally. It should be provactive and challenging....
Okay I'm a Rob Bell fan, love the way he thinks...
Re: Love wins anybody
March 18, 2011 11:15AM
just got the book on my brand new Kindle, haven't had time to start it yet, maybe this weekend. I will say, I've seen a couple of his tv news appearances promoting it, and he looks like a little kid with a great secret, he looks full of joy and like it's going to explode out of him any minute
Re: Love wins anybody
March 18, 2011 10:07PM
Rob Bell interview on MSNBC

don't know if you kiwis can watch this ??
Re: Love wins anybody
March 18, 2011 10:33PM
Very interesting. May have to buy this.

News flash:
God is not angry with you. He loves you.
If you don't believe that,
or think it's too good to be true,
or that I'm making it up - ask Him! smiling smiley
Re: Love wins anybody
March 18, 2011 11:58PM
Hey kids. I have been following the stuff hitting fans of those who haven't even read it yet, hahahaha. And of course I am a Rob Bell fan, so just downloaded the audio on iTunes.
Re: Love wins anybody
March 23, 2011 05:11PM
Ok I am about 4 or so chapters in, I guess I'm a slow listener and if im honest I'm finding it hard going, so many quotes and verses to back up what he's saying when also what he's saying is vast.

For those who are not reading or haven't got there yet here comes a plot spoiler, look away now if you don't want to see the score.

In one chapter he states hell is only real in the sense that it is the consequence and fall out of our sin, but not a place of eternal damnation or separation from god for all eternity.

On one hand I can relate to that in that would the god who died to save us also be the god that turns his back on the majority of his creation forever because they screwed up and sin is it's own punishment, but what about how sin affects others, rb talks about seeing hundreds of amputee children in warzones and say this is hell and hell is real but isn't it the sins of others that are putting others into hell. The sins failings of myself and my ex are putting my inocent children through the hells of divorse.

I wonder what it says about me us the human race if we struggle with the concept of not having the final judgement that we have been taught to believe in for so long
Re: Love wins anybody
March 23, 2011 10:04PM
yeah, a man on a website I was reading was ranting about rob bell being unbiblical and hell being biblical and this woman just kept asking him, "Why are you so invested in hell?"

are we invested in it because we want to see the people who wronged us and others paid out? and if hell isn't real, we feel cheated or something?
Re: Love wins anybody
March 27, 2011 09:51AM
Ok I'll put my neck out here.
We are all eternal beings are we not? That being so this body (earth suit) will die and then we are given a new body at the return of Jesus.

If I being an eternal being (remember you can't kill me with my new body) decide that I won't follow Christ and will still follow my own way forever and continue in the evil that we see all around us, what would you do with me?

I'm not going to die, I won't repent and will continue to pollute those around me, what mechanism are you going to use to corral this reprobate so that that evil is not released.

I have no idea what **** is or how it operates except from the words of our loving Saviour who spoke convincingly of a place of separation He called ****. There was no ambiguity with Him, He always told the truth.

I think we have a just and merciful God and how this is going to pan out God only knows. I have come to believe in spite of the incredible mess I have made of my life outside and inside Christ His love and Grace kept coming to me until it began to 'stick' and I began to say yes to it.

I am so thankful to you guys and others like you, Wayne Jacobsen, Darran Hufford and many others. Without that encouragement and care I would not be alive today.

Not sure if this made sense but that question has haunted me for so long now, "what do you do with evil that will not respond to the ultimate love that He has offered. It cannot be released to do again the evil we have all seen these past millennia
My 2cents
PS: I do not want to see anybody in ****, period..... I have no axe to grind there....
Re: Love wins anybody
March 27, 2011 10:12AM
I think what RB was suggesting was that when we are fully with Christ the effect and consequences of sin will be personal not being able to hurt anyone else. So hell is the consequences of sin for and on that person. Say a person gets so angry they want to kill someone, they won't be able to the person will be safe protected not even damaged emotionally but the person with the anger will have put himself outside gods love and will have to deal with all it's negative effects untill they come back to god.

That's kinda my take

J
Re: Love wins anybody
March 27, 2011 01:56PM
Well, as "hell" has been a topic of much thought (okay, of much fear) over the years, I had to get the book.

So far, it's easier to read than the "Hell Test" website. <--That sight was really overwhelming for me and seemed to have a definite agenda -- kinda gave me hives. :-)
Not sure of my opinion about the topic yet, but currently I'm enjoying his frank and funny writing style.
Re: Love wins anybody
March 30, 2011 02:06AM
I hope it's not a let down. what i mean is..i usually buy these books and then say..Hmmmmm that's what I already kind of believed.. so it's kind of nothing earth shattering..

next week I go to a Christian Campus of sorts to visit family....Think there's no box ??..watch me pull this Rob Bell book out by the pool and just video the reactions..

Or should I bring the History of Hell and Pagan Christianity ?? either way..Poo hitting fan
Re: Love wins anybody
April 01, 2011 08:59PM
The later winking smiley hehehe

Bless yah RR, hope the family time goes .....Gods way! Is there any other??
Re: Love wins anybody
April 01, 2011 10:09PM
Hey RR throw in a couple of Brian Maclaren books and they'll have the marshmallow's roasting by evening. Enjoy the time away and ....try to behave winking smiley
Re: Love wins anybody
April 01, 2011 10:41PM
Should be fun..I'm actually very laid back..don't get into things unless asked..this looks like a pretty easy read..I'll be reading pool side going undercover as a good lil christian..gotta watch my swearing and no drinking ....always interesting..the girls are going to have fun...

Olivia's first trip out of state..

I'll give a full report and review in a week..

this is RR signing off..

Peace..and try and behave while I'm gone.....no pot stirring..ya hear??

that's my job...

Jeff has left the building...Boogie


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 10:44PM by radio roswell.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 04, 2011 07:22AM
Nice one Jeff

Bless ya my friend.

LH
Re: Love wins anybody
April 08, 2011 12:42PM
Well I just got back and read it while on spring break. Rob's book was a highlight in between the relaxing and outdoor activities.
I found it to be so assuring.
I really enjoyed it. There was nothing earth shattering as far as revelations but it articulated what i couldn't in my mind or could take the time to by putting down on paper this time. This book is going to get a lot of flack from the evangelical community. Especially when it reaches those in big numbers struggling badly with old traditional biblical concepts. Or Fundamentalism of that kind.

A book like this can really relate in detail to so many concepts that I've been trying to say and or grasp out of my mind..but Rob does so in such a precision like manner. For that i am grateful.

Which means now that I'm emboldened with such assurance by reading a book like this of similar concepts as one such as Rob..the flack I'll be getting and have been is normal.

Jesus even said it would happen.

anyway..would love to talk more about it but gotta unpack and ll that stuff.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 08, 2011 02:18PM
Hey Jeff
Hope you had a good break,
I think this little book is another slight twist of the key to unlocking something so much bigger, which I guess will cause problems with those who want the door to remain shut or who are scared about what is on the other side.

I thought it was interesting how similar it ran to Wayne Jacobsens he loves me, both with chapters on the prodical, yet WJ seems to have a few issues with RB.

Always a book that offers more questions than answers not that, that is a bad thing, I guess the big one for me is if there is no forced separation for God (hell) but the choice to suffer the consequences of sin, and that those who believe and those who don't will both have access to discovering gods love after death, what is the point of our short mortal lives?

I'm not going to loose sleep over it as I am pretty sure the answer will have something to do with love.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 08, 2011 05:20PM
Hey J,

It was great..we really needed it. I posted pics on FB. I like the paragraph where RB says..we don't have to have that part ( hell of any other) figured out..

We know what to do..and it's enough. I have watched others and myself at times maybe not as bad create my own hell..and watched others create a hell for others too. It's sad. My ex-wife in particular..would be an example..

Although I did read it in a place that was particularly fundamental about such topics that would have created some conflict probably...I found that God kept me pretty much isolated..and relaxed..I'm thankful for that..I wasn't trying to hide it..but just didn't feel the need to over expose it either..

I have no animosity if others want to work out their own salvation as they wish..Like you remind me J. It's a big enough box...I thought of that while I was out and about and reading.

If the conversation comes up..I must do my best to be the grace I'm actually trying to sell right?? I too was in a place of that kind of thought.

I guess what I'm most mad at now is the theology behind such things...not the common people just trying to get through this life and sincerely wanting to know God.

Who knows..maybe a door will open...

I do feel far more at peace now....God's image now bears more and more like the Christ I suspected all along. and That's worth ministering about.

this book was yet another conformation. I found a nice spot with a bench too to sit alone with ipod and said RB book on a bike trail that I've been using for the last few years upon visiting to find some quiet moments..

I thought about my friend Gene and his wife who passed suddenly last year and the year before....I found myself asking form this side of the veil.." is this what it's really like Gene?"..as I read RB's summary of heaven..one that I too imagined.

It was good to feel I didn't have to be so right all the time....or have the right answers..

Ironically as I made my way back home through the highway towards Atlanta from Tampa..I chuckled and rolled my eyes all at once at the various Religious billboards that churches buy to advertise.." Heaven and Hell..it's your choice" imagine a pictures of fields of flowers and flames.." do you know where your going" with a picture of a highway with flames at the end.

we love our eternal bliss don't we??

This is America in the Bible Belt....now I know for sure..the harvest is great and the laborer's so few..


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2011 05:25PM by radio roswell.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 08, 2011 06:13PM
Saw your pics jeff looked great

I just watched rbs everything is spiritual DVD and love the bit where he talks about people choosing to live in a 2d world when it's 3d. People can create a box in 2d on a piece of paper or theology but they forget that there is another side to the piece of paper let alone the fact that there is someone holding the paper in a 3d world.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 12, 2011 06:49AM
I'm reading Love Wins and came here to see if anyone else has. It's been a while so, "Hi everyone!" grinning smiley

Not to spoil it for everyone else, but if I'm understanding correctly, one of the ideas Rob Bell presents in Love Wins isn't that hell doesn't exist or that ultimately everyone will let Christ in. It's more along the lines of the CS Lewis quote about the gates of hell being locked from the inside.

Life apart from God is hell. Life without love is death. God gives us the option to choose to be apart from Him. He tells us it will be horrible. He lets us learn the hard way if we insist on doing so. He doesn't force us to receive His love. He doesn't give us an ultimatum; choose me or I will burn you. Yes, there is pain in not choosing Him but He's done everything that can be done to spare us that pain. He's not the one inflicting it. When we stop investing in going our own way and start searching for a new Way, that's repentance. We don't even have to know that the way that is not our way is actually God's way. We can simply cry out "I am a wretched man! Who can deliver me?" That's not the same as saying Jesus isn't the way or that there are other ways.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 12, 2011 12:01PM
Hey Mounitanash,

that really puts a new twist or confirms for me an old passage I used to really struggle with in the " I am the way the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father except through me............" I didn't struggle so much for my sake....but it seemed the way it was presented to me as being so "narrow" on the sense of title or name dropping only..not an attribute.

then of course the pulpit for years and theology just picks this up and runs with it.." A HA SEE!! IT IS a narrow gate" that a whole other concept and subject too..

well yeah..it's His way..the origin and design....everything we see around us in the design of reconciliation of the way of love is and has his authorship on it..

I think most people understand that they are bent on self fulfilling tendencies and behavior that they can't seem to always understand or control....and have reaped a heavy price form those decisions..I know I have..

What a far better concept to add to the PR department for God. Relating & Empathy are the best weapons against hell no matter what we perceive or know it to be.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2011 12:04PM by radio roswell.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 19, 2011 08:06PM
So?? Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
any more thoughts on this book or is that it?? Visited my original forum yesterday...yikes..what a difference 4 years makes.The discussion on all forums seems to be at standstills.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 19, 2011 09:26PM
I am trying to find time to read it. Maybe I can start it this weekend.

News flash:
God is not angry with you. He loves you.
If you don't believe that,
or think it's too good to be true,
or that I'm making it up - ask Him! smiling smiley
Re: Love wins anybody
April 21, 2011 02:38AM
(((everyone)))

Only on the subject of 'HEAT'

"Anyone who has a precursory knowledge of Word of Faith and it’s heretical theology has heard of the “Jesus died spiritually doctrine,” which is also known as the “Jesus was born again in Hell” doctrine. It is very popular among teachers such as the late Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Frederick Price, and Creflo Dollar. They maintain that it wasn’t Jesus’ death on the cross that was sufficient for our salvation. They claim Jesus had to take on the nature of Satan, go to Hell, and be born again. If this sounds like blasphemy, that’s because it is."


Now off to cool down winking smiley

LH
(A bear sounds nice) yum
Re: Love wins anybody
April 21, 2011 11:54AM
One of the things that fascinates me is the certainty of peoples theology. I'm trying to do a documentary on it. I wish some JW's would could to my door so I could interview them..also I'm wondering if any one I know would or like to be interviewed..

I went back and visited my original forum and they are having debates in the theology section. Nothing is unusual about that. But it strikes me as peculiar when folks are just so certain about things...Hell, election, eschatology..etc the usual suspects..

I'm curious as to how they got there..what kind of study they used and stuff like that.

I'm not tying to be divisive I just am curious..because i don't have a clue about somethings anymore. But it also left me feeling like.." well that's ok because you would NEED faith for those things..being certain about something seems to be weird in some ways..

I'm just curious as to how folks become certain and or say thins like.." The Bible is clear on this"..

Fascinating to me.

I
Re: Love wins anybody
April 21, 2011 04:21PM
Hi all, I've been so busy lately and so tired that although I have seen posts I have not had the mental capacity to think through my thoughts and reply.

I don't know how but through my years age 5-34 in different churches I was a part of I never really picked up on doctrine or theology (although I may have subconciously) I never really understood it, if some one asked me what sort of church I belonged to I wouldn't really have a clue, in my head the answer would be one that follows Christ, and isn't as weird as the other ones!

I guess for me and this is totally personal, I don't find the need to prove actions beliefs right or wrong, maybe that is nieve but I don't do weeks of bible study to confirm that it is right for me to go to the pub and have a drink with fellow sinners, if I did what decisions could be made without being tested, would I ever get out the house.

I guess for me theology and doctrine is just another way of being right and others being wrong, and I haven't got time for that, my life is busy enough without having a theology to back up what I'm doing.

I want to get busy living!

I love my kids, but dan my oldest is often in arguments with his grampy about homosexuality, (I don't know why, maybe cause it winds his grampy up!) but his grampy can quote all the verses in the bible, and dan just looks at him and says "but gods not like that!"

I love that.

Theres also something I'm trying to process via "Peter Rollins" and that's about having enough faith to doubt, to not have to be right but to experience more of god through being wrong, doubting and questioning why you believe.
Re: Love wins anybody
April 21, 2011 09:16PM
(((J-uk))))

Hear in NZ , we.... or rather some folk are remembering 'Good Friday', It your going to 'church' you will know its all about. If you read your bible (generally speaking to everyone) then you will find out what Jesus said about it himself....You know the Doctrine of Easter etc? Hmmmm?

Poor Gramps, but good for son to hear some arguments/debate/talk, for and against? I believe the scriptures says something about 'iron sharpens iron'?

Quote
J(uk)
I guess for me theology and doctrine is just another way of being right and others being wrong, and I haven't got time for that, my life is busy enough without having a theology to back up what I'm doing.

Yeh that's a good question in that statement. Do we need to consider Doctrine/Theology, If so How 'should' we go about it? Was there a pattern set in motion by the Father and the Son?
One chap I can remember told that "I want to get back to the original bible and then find the truth, rather than other folks telling me its this way or that way"
Who wants to be a teacher here? Who has the gift of teaching, if so how do we know what you say is right or wrong and then what do we do with it?

NET 2Cor10v3-5
Paul speaking on Authority giving by the Lord
"For though we live as human beings, we do not wage war according to human standards, for the weapons of our warfare are not human weapons, but are made powerful by God for tearing down strongholds. We tear down arguments and every arrogant obstacle that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey Christ."

Not that we "control the thoughts of others", however the "salt of our lives" is sown - daily - wherever we are.
Along time ago a wise man who was entrusted with a message went about encouraging others and reminding them of the reason for being, "salt shakers" within the faith, that they may remain, faithFULL.

2Tim 2:14-17(NET)
Remind people of these things and solemnly charge them before the Lord not to wrangle over words. This is of no benefit; it just brings ruin on those who listen. Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.
But avoid profane chatter, because those occupied with it will stray further and further into ungodliness,
and their message will spread its infection like gangrene. ..."

The Kingdom of my Father is not about words or someones else's idea of what life is, its about the The Word, The Truth and The Way. Let Him who fills you, Loves you and gives you Grace, lift you up on wings of eagles and shares the weight of your load be your guide in All things, great and small.

LH
(Mustard seed planting)
Re: Love wins anybody
April 22, 2011 12:08AM
I was driving around the other day looking for churches, or more specifically exploring whether they had opportunity shops I didn't know about.

What struck me is that these places in general are huge, the congregation small, the funding necessary to keep them going substantial, and the only difference between them - their theology.

I wondered what it would take for people to find a common ground. Perhaps sell all but the largest church and fellowship together. That would release millions of dollars that if used wisely would negate tithing for evermore!

Well alright it was a bit of a daydream, but it really did highlight to me that it is the differences that religious folks hold on to and not the similarities. What is really so different about one denomination to another? Is it what they have been told by the person standing up the front or the steps-to-be-a-true-member class?

What would happen if we have another meeting like at Nicaea, or Constantinople or Athanasia today?
Re: Love wins anybody
April 22, 2011 06:55AM
I get your point, but for me I prefer rob bells other book point from velvet elvis that we all have a different image of god, each seeing glimpses, it's sharing these glimpses that help to see a bigger picture of god.

You should if you so wish be able to pop into any church and get another perspective trouble is most say I'm not goibg anywhere near other churches because they have different perspective!
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