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Evolution Discussions

Posted by Indy46220 
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Evolution Discussions
December 08, 2010 02:26PM
Something that has often interested me, is how people come to believe what they believe and how they draw their interpretations, conclusions and explanations. Below is a link to an interesting (to me) discussion on how science and religion tackle the subject of evolution.

I have heard of a few of the people involved in this project (one being Richard Rohr who is quoted from time to time here in Papa's Home) I have listened to the first two discussions in a series of many and although I'm not a smart man (spoken with best Forrest Gump accent), it is a joy to listen to each discussion...even if I have to rewind numerous times :-)

[EvolutionaryChristianity.com]

Enjoy! or don't...whichever :-)

Still learning........

Steve
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 08, 2010 09:11PM
Thanks for this Steve, it's something I have been thinking a bit about recently. As a family we went out to Cape Kidnappers a short time ago, and saw the massive cliff faces exposing composition and sedimentary layers and fault lines.

It really made me wonder how, in only 6000 years, it was possible to have the multiple forests, swamps, rivers, etc, over the top of the same piece of land, and for that land to have then been raised and eroded again to reveal those things. For if it were only 6000 years, then in the 60 that we have available to us of recent records, then we should see at least a 1% change; which would be for about a foot of sediment to be laid down, a forest to grow, fall, and be replaced by swamp, and for the process to repeat. That is verifiably not happening. And whilst explainable, it still makes me wonder...

Another link for them; to their blog: [evolutionarychristianity.com]

Yeah, still learning grinning smiley and open to more challenging of long held beliefs.

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce

Re: Evolution Discussions
December 08, 2010 11:36PM
I have been listening to podcasts by Rick Oliver via radiofreechurch.com - what he has to say is very interesting, and is couched in such a way as to present both sides of the argument, along with the facts, and let the listener decide. He started his scientific journeys trying to prove there is no God, and surprise, surprise - found Jesus.

Here is the more specific link... [www.radiofreechurch.com] (if that doesn't work, just go to the 'topics' menu, then 'creation' - mind you .in my humble opinion Boogie - all the stuff in this website is really good - Dave Hunt, Jacob Prasch....)

As much as I love the 'proof' - sometimes I need to simplify my life.... and for me it is this simple....

a) I have faith in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit - ergo if I believe them, and their/His statements - then I believe the bible to be an accurate (slight mis-translations notwithstanding) account of life/love the universe. I cannot discard the parts I do not understand. I either believe Genesis 1:1 through to the end, or I don't.

b) We have an expression here in NZ - it's called the Kiwi 'KISS' = Keep It Simple Sweetheart (or Stupid) - so....... for me, it's 'easier' to believe that God created the world in a literal seven days. If He is who He says He is - then this should pose no problem for Him. It would take a great leap of faith for me to believe in evolution (esp after listening to what Rick Oliver has to say - given the scientific definitions) - and I just don't posses that much faith to take such a leap.

I wonder if we question the whole debate due to what the State would have us believe, and the determination to bamboozle us with scientific jargon that only the 'learn-ed' understand. After all, Mrs So-and-so - (the schoolteacher) told us that we evolved, it's in our school textbooks and plastered in almost every museum, and this is how it happened. God is a crutch etc for the feeble-minded.

I get soooooooooo angry when we visit our National museum in Auckland - they have stuffed dinosaurs etc with plaques that read.... 60 million years ago - pu-leez!! It is stated as fact and we are encouraged to not think anything else. SoapBox

Regarding Onyx's question about sediment - I also wonder if it is a more simple and quick process than we are taught. We are told it takes 1,000 of years, but I know there are places where it has been witnessed in a much shorter period of time. Diamonds too. I can't remember where I read/watched this - but thought it very interesting. The other side to this coin is..... there is still phenomena that we simply don't understand - we are limited by our knowledge. I find it interesting to note that the scientific community are beginning to admit there is a Higher Power or Intelligence - but steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that it is God. It actually surprises me that they continue to experiment and not realize that all they are doing is proving that the universe is an ordered/structured place.

I could prattle on for hours... so will sign off here.

Oh - another interesting sight is www.answersingenesis.org - although some of the articles are quite intense. Another one is Chuck Missler - but don't read any of his stuff unless you are wide awake, alert and have no distractions. It's really meaty stuff - but as with anything - read/listen with an open mind (not so open that your brains fall out) - for every idea, there are opposing views. I guess what I am trying to say is - it is all good food for thought, and in an age where we are NOT encouraged to think for ourselves... these are a good starting place. Scripture tells us in Timothy to '..Study to show thyself approved unto God' - not sure if I am taking that out of context - but in this context - I'm sure you get what I mean.

Just my My 2 Cents worth worth.
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 09, 2010 07:07AM
After reading through some of the blogs on the evolutionarychristianity site the whole thing just doesn't sit right with me. I am having difficulty grasping what it is, written between the lines, but I know for me it is not something I need to pursue. The reality of it all is: it doesn't matter to me whether life evolved according to God's guidance over millions of years, or if life has only been here for 6000 years. What matters is my relationship with Him today; right now. Any other belief system just gets to be a stumbling block where I fall into the trap of following the belief system rather than the living God. Not going there again!Happy Dance

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 09, 2010 01:49PM
Ricy...

No wonder people come to your door and want to talk about spiritual matters! :-) There's a sincere kindness in your messages.

I think you best described my "interest" in this subject as well as other things to think about when you said "I guess what I am trying to say is - it is all good food for thought, and in an age where we are NOT encouraged to think for ourselves". Thankyou for that.

Still learning....

Steve
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 09, 2010 02:09PM
Onyx...

Thankyou for your thoughts. I too, pushed back as I listened and read some of the information on the site. I feel that way about most sites :-) I think I felt that way because I have been taught to do as you described and when something doesn't fit into my idea of what makes sense,( "the whole thing just doesn't sit right with me"winking smiley then I reject it ("not going there again"winking smiley. Did I miss characterize what you said?

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement about "a relationship with Him is what matters". For me.....my stumbling blocks are being torn between buying into other people's belief systems because which has failed me over the years or having an open mind. I honestly believe even in this (whatever "this" might be) His presence is there and I will be safely guided through. I will be able to see the truth and never have to fear being tricked again. A relationship with HIm really does matter because without it, I'll pretty much fall for the next new thing.

You have quoted "We have much to learn from each other; the young and the old. So be patient, and listen for the gems." Amen to that!

Still learning.....

Steve
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 11, 2010 09:20AM
Nothing to add WIll post another time. Yeah
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 11, 2011 06:16PM
I enjoy dwelling at the interface of faith & science. I consider myself a follower of Jesus, whom I've sought to know through self-study, prayer and association with other seekers. I also consider my self a scientist, possessing a degree in biology. bios (Greek for "life"winking smiley + logos (Greek for "word"winking smiley = "the word about life". Since a child I've been intrigued with learning how the universe is put together and how it operates.

I'm convinced that our Abba wants us to know and be known, to love and be loved. The wonder of the created universe, which Abba spoke into being, reveals the nature of its creator. (Paul nails this truth in the opening of his letter to the Roman church) Observing those parts of creation available to us, from micro to macro scale, are opportunities to glimpse aspects of Abba's nature.

In the stories of Narnia, we learn that Aslan is not a tame lion. Our Abba is way too big and wild to be contained in any box, be it constructed of religious doctrine reinforced with lliteral biblical interpretation or the latest and most technically advanced scientific investigation. If I approach an issue from the perspctive of faith or from that of science, I want to do it with an intentional sense of humility and wonder. Because both of those perspectives are incomplete (we see through a glass darkly), yet are at the same time divine in orgn.
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 11, 2011 06:59PM
WELCOME Mr Green Genes! Nice to have you here Happy Dance

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 11, 2011 07:50PM
Welcome also, I am learning to challenge myself to let go of doctrine what I have been told told believe and take hold of the reality of my faith, if my relationship or knowing of god is even slightly true, what does it matter if it is proven my father was an ape, aliens exist and Christ wasn't born of a virgin, do I need those things to prove that my god is God?
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 11, 2011 07:59PM
Quote
J(uk)
Welcome also, I am learning to challenge myself to let go of doctrine what I have been told told believe and take hold of the reality of my faith, if my relationship or knowing of god is even slightly true, what does it matter if it is proven my father was an ape, aliens exist and Christ wasn't born of a virgin, do I need those things to prove that my god is God?

Yep, zigactly J. This is the attitude. Flicks the middle finger to all who would tell you what to think.

I've learned to continually sit just on the edge of the fence; where it is not comfortable, yet retains that security of 'knowing what I know' if that makes sense? Keep challenging myself to question.

Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.
- Lenny Bruce
Re: Evolution Discussions
December 13, 2011 11:36PM
Ohhhh, I am going to have to send this to my new friend in Seattle. She says she doesn't know what she believes, because she was raised in a catholic school, where the nuns would not answer her questions, which she had many of. This looks like a good thing to share with her. (no, not like the 4 spiritual laws, lol). But I found that although I am passionate about God, Papa, the Divine...... whatever name, JESUS, she and I did have a lot in common about the natural world, animals, plants, beauty..... in fact a LOT more than any of the "Christians" that I spent time with in my past. What's with THAT? We were taught that if we asked a question beyond what "they" said, then we are being disrespectful. You know, the earth really is flat.

Welcome Mr Green jeans (that was always my fav character, lol) And yes, I think that we learn a lot from stories, like the Narnia, or LOTR series. In fact, I am married to an engineer, and he goes by formulas and emotions. That's just all he knows to do. The "religious professionals" make the rules, and he kinda follows. It's been, as you can imagine, a real point of frustration for me, because it's all WAY bigger than that to me, and it's frustrating for him because he thinks I should be there, making an appearance to be "godly" with him at his meetings. I can't do that.

Anyway, being that many of the workers are abandoning the volunteer and even the paid positions at his church, he has ended up way way over his head in "duties" because someone has to do it. Personally, I call that polishing the deck chairs on the Titanic. As it is he works a good 12 hours a day, and then to try to teach middle school children how to stay out of sin..... well, it's a bit overwhelming. This last week he came to me asking for some "scriptures" about selfishness. Well, I have wearied of this "do not" stuff for the kiddos, and thought I would try a different approach. I asked him if he would like to teach them about the opposite of selfishness, the best antidote instead, which is gratitude. He actually heard me. Then I gave him some quotes from Narnia, and being as I have the videos, he ended up showing the kids parts of the videos...... Whew, God save those youngsters from having to live their lives by dead ugly rules and laws when they can live a life of adventure, not having to know all of the answers, but free to ask the questions and delve into the unknown!!!!

Ok.... off of my soap box. Back to the natural world, and beyond.......
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